Larry James - Time travel controller at the Montauk Project - part 2
The human factor
In PART 1 of this interview, which was recorded in 2000, Larry James talked about mind-control research done at Camp Hero on Long Island. He also talks about the physics, the technology and the mathematics needed for time travel. The mathematical equations for time travel were created by MIT professor Norman Levinson, whose books were later classified by the Nazi Security Agency on the grounds of national security.
All of this is described by physicist Al Bielek—the brother of Duncan Cameron and Jim Cameron—in his Complete Video Autobiography. Jim Cameron, like his brothers, was a sailor. He died in the Philadelphia Experiment when his body was embedded in the deck of the U.S.S. Eldridge. Duncan Cameron and Al Bielek (Edward Cameron) jumped off the Eldridge and landed at Camp Hero 40 years in the future, on August 12, 1983.
In PART 2, Larry James discusses human factor research. Human factor research involved reducing a person’s ego-soul to an electronic signature stored on a tiny chip, so that he could be cloned and used as a slave. With the ability to block memories and implant false memories, people could be replicated for off-world servitude lasting from 20 years to entire lifetimes. For a first-hand account of what this is like, read Tony Rodrigues’s book, Ceres Colony Cavalier.
Interview done by Michael Houtzager (zager@webhoster.com). Michael Houtzager’s web site is http://www.bielek.com/
37:45 MICHAEL: So that was something that you used to, I would imagine, to figure out how to set the coordinates of where person was going to go to.
LARRY: Yeah, that's what it eventually came out to be, yeah.
MICHAEL: So, initially did you just send, like, dogs and cameras and things like that through there?
LARRY: Oh, yes, we sent cameras, but we never sent dogs: that's what the Montauk boys were for. And so, yeah, that's where they became— they came into the project as guinea pigs and [that was] what I had used them for in the time travel.
MICHAEL: How long did it take for you to figure out the math to know where you're going to send them, so you could program the coordinates? Did that coincide with the arrival of the delta-T antennas?
LARRY: No, that was more towards the [UI] of the frequencies. You know, you can replicate any frequency, but there's specific points in time. Here's a point in time, and now we’re talking, and here's another point in time. And it's all governed by specific— You know, everything around us, including us, is energy. Everything's energy. And so, mass is just a jumble of electrons pulling together.
MICHAEL: Just slowed down.
LARRY: It’s energy. Yeah, it's energy slowed down.
MICHAEL: So, you're saying there was a way to mathematically represent the vast amount of energy— For instance, as you're sitting here talking to me right now, the way to represent this energy which we call you, Larry, it boggles my mind.
LARRY: In theory, if I was to copy and record your body, your frequency—because we all have our own energies, our own personal frequency—if I was to take that, copy it and record it, I could actually make a duplicate of you—an exact duplicate that would know everything that you know.
40:00 MICHAEL: Okay, well, I know quite a bit about computers; so, could I fit on a forty-meg hard drive?
LARRY: Oh, God, no.
MICHAEL: How big would my imprint be?
LARRY: It would be huge. Basically, at that time, like I said earlier, we were using reel-to-reel.
MICHAEL: Tapes, right. So, how big were the capacities of the tapes then? Do you recall?
LARRY: No, I don't recall, but I do remember that for one person, you had several hundred tapes, several hundred reels of tape.
40:00 MICHAEL: But that would just take a long time, Larry.
LARRY: Yeah, and it did.
MICHAEL: I mean, I could just see you— hours.
LARRY: Hours and hours—actually a couple of days.
MICHAEL: Now, this is a different dimension to the story, then. So, one of these Montauk boys, you would actually go in and profile him for days, right?
LARRY: No, actually we didn’t: we just sent them.
MICHAEL: You just sent those guys.
LARRY: Yeah, we just sent them.
MICHAEL: Well, the ones that you wanted to keep—
LARRY: See, that came later, as far as the profiling. Because we were still trying to figure out, okay, we've opened up the hole in time. What do we do with it now? Well, we want to see where it's at. So, you send somebody through.
MICHAEL: Why not a dog, though, initially? Why a human being?
LARRY: Because a dog can't come back and tell you what they saw.
MICHAEL: But apparently, most of the boys never came back.
LARRY: Well, that's true. What it is, is, you’ve got to be careful. You have to be very focused when you're going through time. And if you're not careful, you can actually get sidetracked and you can get lost.
MICHAEL: You're saying that the person doing the time-travelling must be very focused.
LARRY: Yes.
MICHAEL: So, it's almost like a tunnel with side tunnels, right?
LARRY: True.
MICHAEL: And if you take your focus off the main tunnel and go down the side tunnel, is that what happens?
LARRY: Yep, you can you could end up in limbo, or you can end up ah you know in some other point in time that you weren't originally intending to go to.
MICHAEL: And then you and I simply just don't know what happened to those people.
LARRY: Yeah, because that's not where the hardware is focused on. So, yeah, there's no way to retrieve them.
MICHAEL: So, you think there's quite a few people out there in limbo right now—
LARRY: That's very possible.
MICHAEL: —because of this experiment.
LARRY: They could be in limbo; they could be in the side of a mountain for all I know.
MICHAEL: Well, that's that certainly leads to another question. What if you got to your math wrong, and instead of putting them on the street you put them—
LARRY: Inside a building—
MICHAEL: —inside a building—
LARRY: —or inside a ship, as we had experienced with the Philadelphia Experiment. Yeah, that was one of the problems.
See, there again, that's where we found out about the human frequency and how important it was to record that. And that's also where the psychics in the psychic chair came in, was to control the human factor.
Aboard the Eldridge, when it went through into its portion of time travel, you were taking the physical matter. And the physical matter doesn't change, but what happened was, they didn't calculate for the human factor. And so, the human factor—the human body of human frequency—is completely different and is constantly changing, so to speak. It has a general frequency which stays the same, but there are always things in our bodies that are changing constantly. And so, you have to compensate for that.
And what happened on the Eldridge was you have people moving around on the ship, and so they were moving on a portion of the ship where the ship was shifting through time. And so, they [the sailors and the ship] actually shifted into one another, and that's why you had people fused into the bulkheads.
MICHAEL: Okay, I thought you were going to say that you actually placed the people there using your technology, but sort of made a mistake and put them inside the bulkhead.
LARRY: Uh, no.
MICHAEL: So, the only two people that were in— what do you call that area that Duncan and Ed were in when they jumped off the ship?
45:00 LARRY: It's kind of like a time limbo.
MICHAEL: Limbo: limbo’s the word. Is that where space and time don’t exist?
LARRY: It’s held.
MICHAEL: When you're in limbo, you're just—
LARRY: You're just there.
MICHAEL: Okay. If you're in limbo, could you still have a conversation, or are you frozen?
LARRY: No, you're still there; you can perform all your normal functions; you can talk and everything. It’s just that you're lost in time.
MICHAEL: Is it kind of like what ghosts are in? Are they in limbo?
LARRY: Well, that's something else entirely different. Basically, when the human body dies, that energy is still there, and all the accumulated energy of our thoughts and our experiences. And so, that all rises up and breaks apart. And as far as a ghost is concerned, that is somebody who's holding together a little bit more, rather than just breaking apart and just becoming a part of the energy fields of the world.
MICHAEL: So, in limbo, your physical being is in there.
LARRY: Right. You’re in-between the phases of time in the time travel.
MICHAEL: Okay so you sent these Montauk boys out: did many return?
LARRY: Oh, yeah. When things started getting more successful, yeah. Initially—
MICHAEL: Initially nobody returned.
LARRY: —nobody returned. And we were sending cameras through, and we were getting better results with that, because that was a more structural mass and the frequencies didn’t vary quite so much on it.
MICHAEL: I am still trying to figure out the relationship between the psychic in the chair and the delta-T antenna.
LARRY: Okay, the psychic in the chair was basically to help hold the human factor together, which was later—
MICHAEL: You talk about the human factor as it traveled through the space-time?
LARRY: Rght. So, you wouldn't break up, you wouldn't go crazy, you wouldn't atomize, so to speak.
MICHAEL: So, they were a stabilizer in a sense, right?
LARRY: Right. And that was later recorded and kept in a computer, so that you could travel safely through without ever having to re-use a psychic every time.
MICHAEL: You’re saying the experience that the psychic was having, you recorded that?
LARRY: That's correct.
MICHAEL: Okay. Digitized it somehow, put it on a tape, and then the next time when you wanted to time travel, you could just replay that tape?
LARRY: Yeah. Actually, later on it was burned into more advanced computers
MICHAEL: Burned into the chip sets, or something like that?
LARRY: That’s correct.
MICHAEL: So, you had your own computer. Which, you’d roll that up and say, “This is Mike's computer; this is Mike's profile.”
LARRY: No. Actually, at that point you didn't even need it for an individual anymore. It was basically geared for the human frequency.
MICHAEL: Oh, just human in general. So, there was a point where you didn't need the psychics in the chair anymore, right?
LARRY: That's true.
MICHAEL: But you did at the beginning to stabilize the person who was going through.
LARRY: Mm-hm. We did do continuous experiments afterwards, but that was for other projects, to experiment with other things to see what we could get out of them. Like, Duncan had pulled in a creature. So, that was one instance where he was in the chair at the time, and he pulled in the creature. The creature was— he found somewhere in limbo there in the time continuum.
MICHAEL: Okay. Do you think he had found it just at that one point in time, or had he seen him before and invited him in in 1983? Because this was August 12, 1983.
LARRY: Only Duncan that can answer that one.
50:00 MICHAEL: Yeah, well, unfortunately Duncan doesn't want to talk much about this stuff.
LARRY: From what I understand, he used to talk, but he, like many folks, had gotten scared.
MICHAEL: Well, I think this is not so much being scared, but it’s that he just doesn't want to deal with it.
LARRY: Well, you get that factor, too.
MICHAEL: It was just too much for him to handle at this point in the year 2000, and that's why he's not—
LARRY: Well, it's a hard subject to deal with in the first place, and people kind of like to live with blinders on sometimes. It's just too much for them to handle, so it's easier to disbelieve it than to be open-minded about it and take a chance on believing it.
MICHAEL: Even the people in the program?
LARRY: Well, yeah, because, what it is, you're working on this project, and it's going against 100% of all your beliefs, and so, yeah, it's a heavy weight on you mentally. And so, yeah, some people have a hard time with it.
MICHAEL: Did you see a lot of people opt out of the program?
LARRY: Yeah, but not right away. Most of that came later on, people dealing with their own demons.
MICHAEL: So, there were regrets later on about all these boys who were being massacred, in a sense.
LARRY: Yeah.
MICHAEL: You really didn't know what happened with them, but they didn’t come back.
LARRY: Well, at that time, you know, you look at them, you know, they were just guinea pigs in the project. So, at that time I wasn't aware of the other things that were going on, the other experimentations that were happening to them. I didn't find that out until much later.